{"id":42291,"date":"2023-02-15T16:08:33","date_gmt":"2023-02-15T03:08:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/?p=42291"},"modified":"2023-02-15T16:08:33","modified_gmt":"2023-02-15T03:08:33","slug":"u-s-realtors-go-back-to-their-other-jobs","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/u-s-realtors-go-back-to-their-other-jobs\/","title":{"rendered":"U.S. realtors go back to their other jobs"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>PHOTO: U.S. realtor numbers are dropping like flies. FILE<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Dave Parker has quit trying to sell houses.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Last spring, the 46-year-old father of three joined a real-estate brokerage in Silver Spring, Md., hoping to make money on the booming housing market. Less than a year later, mortgage rates have climbed and many would-be clients have backed out. Mr. Parker recently took on more hours at a Giant Food supermarket where he already worked part time as a dairy manager.<\/p>\n<div class=\"entry-featured-img-wrap\"><a class=\"entry-featured-img-link\" href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/profile-your-business-for-12-months-in-2019\/\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"attachment-hoot-medium-thumb  entry-content-featured-img entry-grid-featured-img wp-post-image ls-is-cached lazyloaded\" src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/Yvonne-Bradley-460x270.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"460\" height=\"270\" data-src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/Yvonne-Bradley-460x270.jpg\" \/><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"entry-grid-content\">\n<header class=\"entry-header\">\n<h2 class=\"entry-title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/profile-your-business-for-12-months-in-2019\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Profile your business (for 12 months) \u2013 ONLY $499 INCL GST<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/header>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"paywall css-1u1nl00-PaywalledContentContainer e1db8bjv0\">\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cAt that point, I was like, I need to feed my family,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Like\u00a0the housing boom, the boom in people becoming real-estate agents is ending.<\/p>\n<div class=\"media-layout css-18naxvb-Layout ek23gj80\" data-type=\"inset\" data-inset_type=\"newsletterinset\" data-sub_type=\"\" data-layout=\"wrap\">\n<hr class=\"css-1lzgy3q\" data-testid=\"divider\" aria-hidden=\"true\" \/>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">The number of Realtors rose alongside home prices in 2020 and 2021. When the Covid-19 pandemic eliminated millions of jobs, especially in service industries, career-switchers piled into the housing industry. By late 2020, the number of Realtors\u00a0surpassed the number of homes for sale.<\/p>\n<div class=\"entry-featured-img-wrap\"><a class=\"entry-featured-img-link\" href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/mother-of-slain-real-estate-agent-pleads-for-answers-watch\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"attachment-hoot-medium-thumb  entry-content-featured-img entry-grid-featured-img wp-post-image ls-is-cached lazyloaded\" src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/Ramina-Shah-460x270.jpg\" alt=\"Ramina Shah\" width=\"460\" height=\"270\" data-src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/Ramina-Shah-460x270.jpg\" \/><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"entry-grid-content\">\n<header class=\"entry-header\">\n<h2 class=\"entry-title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/mother-of-slain-real-estate-agent-pleads-for-answers-watch\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Mother of slain real estate agent pleads for answers | WATCH<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/header>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">But existing-home sales\u00a0dropped last year\u00a0to the lowest level since 2014. Data from the National Association of Realtors shows\u00a0monthly membership\u00a0peaked in October at more than 1.6 million members before dipping over the past three months, with 1.5 million members in January.<\/p>\n<div class=\"media-layout css-zpeolb-Layout ek23gj80\" data-type=\"inset\" data-inset_type=\"dynamic\" data-sub_type=\"origami\" data-layout=\"inline\">\n<div class=\"css-17vk6u0-InsetBackgroundWrapper e1x9hfvr0\">\n<div data-block=\"dynamic-inset\">\n<div id=\"origami-7da32c8f-532e-44d6-9f24-71bc50d30d2e\" class=\"origami-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"origami-image-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"origami-image\">\n<figure><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-723612?size=0.667&amp;height=900\" width=\"600\" height=\"900\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"origami-image\">\n<figure><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-723622?size=1&amp;height=900\" width=\"900\" height=\"900\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><em><strong><span class=\"origami-caption origami-grouped-caption\">Dave Parker, the father of three boys and husband to Lily Hammond, far right, took on more work hours at a supermarket.<\/span><span class=\"origami-credit origami-grouped-credit\">JUSTIN T. GELLERSON FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL<\/span><\/strong><\/em><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Realtors are now competing for a slice of far fewer transactions. The slowdown is especially challenging for newer agents who don\u2019t have a long list of past clients or local contacts to help them find buyers and sellers. Some say they are going back to other work, expecting to come back to real estate some day when the market recovers. Others are letting their licenses lapse with no plans to ever return.<\/p>\n<div class=\"entry-featured-img-wrap\"><a class=\"entry-featured-img-link\" href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/former-real-estate-agent-faces-fraud-charges\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"attachment-hoot-medium-thumb  entry-content-featured-img entry-grid-featured-img wp-post-image ls-is-cached lazyloaded\" src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona.jpg\" sizes=\"(max-width: 320px) 100vw, 320px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona.jpg 320w, https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona-300x225.jpg 300w\" alt=\"Noel Dona\" width=\"320\" height=\"240\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona.jpg 320w, https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona-300x225.jpg 300w\" data-src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/Noel-Dona.jpg\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 320px) 100vw, 320px\" \/><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"entry-grid-content\">\n<header class=\"entry-header\">\n<h2 class=\"entry-title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/former-real-estate-agent-faces-fraud-charges\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Former real estate agent faces fraud charges<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/header>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">The typical Realtor in the U.S. has eight years of experience, works 35 hours a week and earned a gross income of $54,300 in 2021, according to a March 2022 survey by NAR. Almost 80% of those surveyed said they were very certain they would stay in the industry in the next two years.<\/p>\n<div class=\"entry-featured-img-wrap\"><a class=\"entry-featured-img-link\" href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/missing-real-estate-agent-makes-contact-with-family\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"attachment-hoot-medium-thumb  entry-content-featured-img entry-grid-featured-img wp-post-image ls-is-cached lazyloaded\" src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/Leesa-Forrest-1-460x270.jpg\" alt=\"Ray White Narrabeen\" width=\"460\" height=\"270\" data-src=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/Leesa-Forrest-1-460x270.jpg\" \/><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"entry-grid-content\">\n<header class=\"entry-header\">\n<h2 class=\"entry-title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/missing-real-estate-agent-makes-contact-with-family\/\" rel=\"bookmark\">Missing real estate agent makes contact with family<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/header>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">It is early to say whether the dip in the number of Realtors signals an exodus from the field or is just a seasonal slowdown, said NAR chief economist\u00a0Lawrence Yun. He believes a cooling housing market is more likely to be reflected in a declining number of Realtors in a year or two.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">He said home buyers and sellers shouldn\u2019t be affected.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cThey\u2019ll have plenty of choices\u201d in picking out an agent, he said. But for those considering real estate as a new career, he added, it\u2019s \u201cnot an easy profession.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Most real-estate agents are independent contractors, and many don\u2019t work full time. Some agents are likely to keep their real-estate licenses active, even if they have no clients, in case the market picks up in the next year or so, according to longtime agents.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Renee Cross got her real-estate license last summer, after moving to Great Falls, Mont.,\u00a0to pursue her dream of selling houses. The 19-year-old former bakery manager just closed her first\u2014and so far only\u2014deal earlier this month.<\/p>\n<div class=\"media-layout css-18naxvb-Layout ek23gj80\" data-type=\"image\" data-inset_type=\"\" data-sub_type=\"\" data-layout=\"wrap\">\n<figure class=\"css-x5rdl7-Figure e338ton0\"><picture class=\"css-vl2swp\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"css-gt0p44\" src=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=639&amp;height=639\" sizes=\"(max-width: 639px) 100vw, (max-width: 979px) 300px, (max-width: 1299px) 300px, 300px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=300&amp;size=1 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=300&amp;size=1 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=300&amp;size=1 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=639&amp;size=1 639w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=639&amp;size=1&amp;pixel_ratio=1.5 958.5w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=639&amp;size=1&amp;pixel_ratio=2 1278w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-719061?width=639&amp;size=1&amp;pixel_ratio=3 1917w\" alt=\"\" width=\"639\" height=\"639\" \/><\/picture><\/figure>\n<p><em><strong><span class=\"css-7e2iv5-CaptionSpan e27a7vm0\">Renee Cross closed her first\u2014and so far only\u2014deal earlier this month.<\/span><span class=\"css-g3wtir-Credit e1qrk3ee0\"><span class=\"css-1i2ud9c-CreditTag e1m3qan30\">PHOTO:\u00a0<\/span>JULIA GREMAUX PHOTOGRAPHY<\/span><\/strong><\/em><\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cHonestly it\u2019s been super tough,\u201d she said. \u201cI don\u2019t have a lot of connections. Everybody already knows somebody.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Redfin\u00a0Corp., which operates a real-estate brokerage where its agents are employees,\u00a0laid off hundreds of people\u00a0last year after hiring hundreds of agents in 2021. Layoffs have also been widespread at mortgage lenders due to reduced demand for home purchases and refinances.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Brokers at Lamacchia Realty, which has almost 500 agents in six states, noticed over the summer that some of its new agents were struggling during the market slowdown, said Chief Operating Officer Jackie Louh.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cA lot of them seemed to think it was going to be quick, easy money,\u201d she said. \u201cThis is not an easy market to navigate for even a seasoned agent.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">To ensure Lamacchia\u2019s agents are committed to real estate, the firm rolled out new requirements. Agents must make real estate their main career within six months of joining the company and regularly attend trainings on real-estate fundamentals and sales techniques. Between 30 and 40 agents left the company in response, Ms. Louh said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Liz Brent, who owns a brokerage in Silver Spring, said that new agents often don\u2019t understand how much time and energy is involved in a single transaction. She limits the number of new agents she agrees to work with. Training people new to real estate is a time-intensive commitment, she said, and unskilled agents can pose ethical and legal liabilities for her practice.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cI have to be extremely selective,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Jackie Goodhart got her real-estate license in 2020 after being furloughed from her longtime job as a national sales manager for Omni Mount Washington Resort in Bretton Woods, N.H. She says she enjoyed the work but was surprised by the unpredictable hours, especially during the busy market.<\/p>\n<div class=\"media-layout css-18naxvb-Layout ek23gj80\" data-type=\"image\" data-inset_type=\"\" data-sub_type=\"\" data-layout=\"wrap\">\n<figure class=\"css-x5rdl7-Figure e338ton0\"><picture class=\"css-vl2swp\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"css-gt0p44\" src=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=639&amp;height=830\" sizes=\"(max-width: 639px) 100vw, (max-width: 979px) 300px, (max-width: 1299px) 300px, 300px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=300&amp;size=0.7696933253156946 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=300&amp;size=0.7696933253156946 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=300&amp;size=0.7696933253156946 300w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=639&amp;size=0.7696933253156946 639w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=639&amp;size=0.7696933253156946&amp;pixel_ratio=1.5 958.5w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=639&amp;size=0.7696933253156946&amp;pixel_ratio=2 1278w, https:\/\/images.wsj.net\/im-718187?width=639&amp;size=0.7696933253156946&amp;pixel_ratio=3 1917w\" alt=\"\" width=\"639\" height=\"830\" \/><\/picture><\/figure>\n<p><em><strong><span class=\"css-7e2iv5-CaptionSpan e27a7vm0\">Jackie Goodhart tried her hand at real estate before returning to her old job at a resort.<\/span><span class=\"css-g3wtir-Credit e1qrk3ee0\"><span class=\"css-1i2ud9c-CreditTag e1m3qan30\">PHOTO:\u00a0<\/span>DAVID FOX PHOTOGRAPHY<\/span><\/strong><\/em><\/div>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cIt was very hard to schedule anything,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">Ms. Goodhart closed 15 transactions in about a year and made about half of what she did in hospitality. In mid-2021, she returned to her old job at the resort.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cI was just uncertain, with the level of experience I had in the real-estate industry, if it could sustain me in the long haul, if the market should drop,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">In Oklahoma City, Katie Woodward was drawn to real estate after five years as a special-education teacher. The 37-year old joined a brokerage last summer, but she is still waiting to close her first transaction.<\/p>\n<p class=\"css-xbvutc-Paragraph e3t0jlg0\" data-type=\"paragraph\">\u201cThe autonomy was a big thing to me at the time, to be free to run my own business and not be micromanaged,\u201d she said.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>READ MORE VIA <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/articles\/as-home-sales-slow-realtors-go-back-to-their-other-jobs-679ae309\">WSJ<\/a><\/p>\n<h3 class=\"widget-title\"><span class=\"accent-typo\">MOST POPULAR IN NEW ZEALAND<\/span><\/h3>\n<ul class=\"wpp-list\">\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/do-your-bloody-job-gower-hits-out-at-banks-obscene-profits\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">\u2018Do your bloody job\u2019: Gower hits out at banks\u2019 \u2018obscene profits\u2019<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/the-ancient-stone-city-proof-of-nz-civilisation-before-kupe\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">THE ANCIENT STONE CITY: Proof of NZ civilisation before Kupe<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/shane-warne-leaves-bulk-of-20-7-million-estate-to-his-children\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Shane Warne leaves bulk of $20.7 million estate to his children<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/claims-about-jacinda-arderns-wealth\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Claims about Jacinda Ardern\u2019s wealth<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/auckland-construction-firm-with-more-than-100-employees-into-liquidation\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Auckland construction firm with more than 100 employees into liquidation<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/palmerston-north-real-estate-company-in-the-firing-line\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Palmerston North real estate company in the \u2018firing line\u2019<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/bayleys-on-growth-path-buys-specialist-residential-real-estate-agency\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Bayleys on growth path BUYS specialist residential real estate agency<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/abandoned-land-for-sale\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Abandoned land for sale<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/the-imminent-end-horror-house-price-plunge-prediction-australia\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">\u2018THE IMMINENT END\u2019: Horror house price plunge prediction | AUSTRALIA<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"wpp-post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/www.propertynoise.co.nz\/billionaire-graeme-hart-gets-on-housing-development-bandwagon\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"noopener\">Billionaire Graeme Hart gets on housing development bandwagon<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>PHOTO: U.S. realtor numbers are dropping like flies. FILE Dave<span class=\"more-link\"><a href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/u-s-realtors-go-back-to-their-other-jobs\/\">Read More &rarr;<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":32735,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[461747081],"tags":[478124626,478100627,478100628,478098705,478098533,478098828,478101137,478124627,478112432,478114488,478111807,478104479,478114392,478123195,478110617,478111173],"class_list":["entry","author-data123nz","post-42291","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-australian-property-real-estate-news","tag-dave-parker","tag-nar","tag-national-association-of-realtors","tag-real-estate-agency","tag-real-estate-agent","tag-real-estate-agents","tag-real-estate-brokerage","tag-real-estate-licenses","tag-top-u-s-real-estate-agents","tag-u-s","tag-u-s-buyers","tag-u-s-economy","tag-u-s-home-prices","tag-u-s-house-sales","tag-u-s-real-estate-agents","tag-u-s-realtors"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>U.S. realtors go back to their other jobs - Property News Australia<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/propertynoise.co.nz\/au\/u-s-realtors-go-back-to-their-other-jobs\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"U.S. realtors go back to their other jobs - Property News Australia\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"PHOTO: U.S. realtor numbers are dropping like flies. 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